58mm vs 57mm portafilter size

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maverick_gr
Posts: 10
Joined: 8 years ago

#1: Post by maverick_gr »

Hello all,

Is there any reason in choosing a 58mm over a 57mm portafilter espresso machine.
I am interested in the Lelit PL41 series with PID and the 58mm is 100 euros more expensive. Is it worth it?

Nick Name
Posts: 680
Joined: 9 years ago

#2: Post by Nick Name »

If you want to experiment with VST or some other precision baskets, they are easy to find for 58mm.

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Viernes
Posts: 266
Joined: 15 years ago

#3: Post by Viernes »

Get the "standard" 58, far more convenience than other sizes. - baskets, tampers, "espresso recipes" are also usually for 58mm... for other sizes may vary... or not...

LukeFlynn
Posts: 1293
Joined: 10 years ago

#4: Post by LukeFlynn »

I would pay more for 58mm personally.

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zeb
Posts: 311
Joined: 13 years ago

#5: Post by zeb »

On Lelit machines the main difference between 57 and 58mm basket isn't the millimeter... The boiler with 57 basket is ~225 ml and comes from Mokita machines. 58mm group is a rebirth of Brasilia Lady, Club, Faema Family first series and others. 350ml boiler, and a warranty of far much better espresso, and far more easily.

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bluesman
Posts: 1594
Joined: 10 years ago

#6: Post by bluesman replying to zeb »

But on the other hand, the smaller boiler makes it much faster and easier to prepare one or more milk-based drinks - and I don't agree that the espresso is "much better" simply because of the bigger boiler & grouphead. In my experience, my PL41TEM heats up and stabilizes much sooner than a machine with a larger boiler, and the PID is more easily able to stabilize the temp. I let it warm up for about 15 minutes after the PID shows 95C and I then grind, tamp and load the first dose.

If I'm making a cap or mac, I steam first: throw the switch to steam and the PID shows 135+ in about 90 seconds. After steaming the milk, I bring the temp back down by flushing hot water through the steam wand and shutting off the pump when the temp drops through about 120 (prewarming the next vessel with the second half of the flush). It then continues to drop steadily to 95 in the time it takes me to thoroughly wipe the steam wand, at which time I pull the shot. If I'm making multiple drinks at one time, I immediately switch it back to steam and it's up to 135+ before I've knocked out the puck, cleaned the PF, ground and reloaded.

I've loved my Lelit 41 since day 1 and wouldn't hesitate to buy it again over any other machine I've seen in its price & capability range. The 57mm PF is not at all a liability, I've found the small boiler to be a big plus for speed and temp stability, and it makes excellent espresso.

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zeb
Posts: 311
Joined: 13 years ago

#7: Post by zeb »

I compare machines for there ability to make espresso as I didn't drink milk anymore since my 15...

And I don't bother at all the size, the pid, non pid or even the name of the machine.

I had many occasions to compare Mokita like machines and Rossi like. Rossi like is far much better to develop aromas, with far more body.

But we don't have to agree to be happy I'm sure ;)

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bluesman
Posts: 1594
Joined: 10 years ago

#8: Post by bluesman »

bluesman wrote:If I'm making a cap or mac, I steam first: throw the switch to steam and the PID shows 135+ in about 90 seconds.
I timed it while making my after-dinner drinks - it takes 53 seconds to heat my 41TEM from 95 to 141C and 25 seconds to reach 95 again including a 6 second flush with hot water to clean the wand & cool it down to 123 or so. I've never encountered another single boiler machine even close to that kind of speed, and it's almost certainly that fast because of the very small boiler and large heating element relative to the boiler capacity. It also fills & recovers very quickly - 3 or 4 milk drinks in a row are no challenge at all. Sure, my plumbed Oscar is faster - but it also sells for almost 3 times more.

The espresso is excellent with attention to the usual factors, so I'd recommend ignoring the PF size and going for features that matter to the buyer. In this case, I see no advantage at all to a 58 over a 57 unless you want to play with baskets unavailable in 57mm.

maverick_gr (original poster)
Posts: 10
Joined: 8 years ago

#9: Post by maverick_gr (original poster) »

So after searching a lot I have concluded to either the Lelit PL041 PLUST PID or the Oscar and I am leaning toward the Oscar with some mods. My only concern for the Oscar is that it looks "old" but from what I understand it's not really outdated just visually inferior to newer sexier models.

Nick Name
Posts: 680
Joined: 9 years ago

#10: Post by Nick Name replying to maverick_gr »

The price of a new Oscar in Europe is very tempting (less than 600€, or 660€ with all the usual mods pre-installed by the seller, thus not losing the warranty), so it's hard to beat as a deal. With mods it is a pretty standard hx machine. It should serve you fine unless you start to want some of those modern gimmicks like double boiler, pressure profiling, mobile apps to control it (or simply a better looking machine). But for the same technical level than Oscar, you'd have to pay quite a bit more. In any case, if you put the money saved into a better grinder, you should get better results.

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