Hey peeps, i'm looking at getting my first set-up. i settled on Gaggia Pure with a MDF or Rocky grinder for <$500. I then started to feel like i wanted to get a espresso machine that will last me for ever, as in not wanting to upgrade in a year or two, cause i don't have a lot of faith in the Pure holding up over time. I started looking at the G Classic for $400. Then i found out about the Aluminum boiler. Why in the world would they put an aluminum boiler on the Classic and a SSteel in the Pure? I admit, i'm a little concerned about the Alzheimer's thing and the ability of aluminum to hold up over time. Am i making too much out of the aluminum thing.

Anyway, if the aluminum concern if not warranted, i would have to skimp on the grinder if i go this route. I'm guessing Virtuoso, right?

I mainly do lattes, and would be fixing two a day at the most, so not a heavy user. Does the fact that i will be doing lattes mean anything as far as which espresso machine to get? Any other recommendations are useful, as i'm getting to the point where i need to make a move. Every week i put this off is another $50 i spend at Starbucks, ya know.

Appreciate any help.

The Pure is a very different machine from traditional home Gaggias. The boiler design in particular: the traditional Gaggia aluminum boiler with external heating elements has a reputation for corrosion problems, but is a tested design, while the Pure has an immersion element. From the parts diagram the Pure looks like it is essentially a Saeco machine, like the Aroma before the redesign.

I have Gaggia Coffees from 20+ years ago that still works well (they get pressed into service when my main machine is up on blocks, or when they are on loan to friends), though I've had to replace parts every so often over the years. These traditional machines are very hardy (and very easy to get parts for).

Why not phone some Gaggia dealers and see if you they have any refurbished Espressos, Coffees, Babies, or Classics in stock?

David R. wrote:From the parts diagram the Pure looks like it is essentially a Saeco machine, like the Aroma before the redesign.

is this a compliment or a criticism.

Part of me wants to just say screw it and try out a stove-top Brikka. Esp since i do lattes.

Skimping on the grinder is the biggest (and most common newbie) mistake.

It's far easier to pull a good shot with a $200 espresso machine and $1000 grinder than a $20,000 espresso machine and a $100 grinder.

gnostic19 wrote:is this a compliment or a criticism.

Both brands have their proponents. I've never owned a Saeco, so won't judge them. I just wanted to address your question about boiler: the reason their higher-end home machines have an aluminum boiler is because that is the boiler used by 'true' Gaggias.

I think that the traditional Gaggias are some of the best machines made for espresso newbies: they are very forgiving of fault, they are simple with a time-tested design, their group is commercial-sized, if something goes wrong they are easy to fix with inexpensive parts. Used properly and coupled with a decent grinder they can produce espresso that rivals commercial machines (though not as consistently). The innards of the Classic and Baby are the best that Gaggia ever put in a home pump machine. If you can get one of these two models and squeeze a decent burr grinder into your budget, you will have an excellent setup that will last for years. I don't know of any $100 grinders currently on the market that are adequate for espresso, which is why I suggested looking for a refurbed espresso machine.

The Classic has a 3 way valve, and a OPV. I don't think the Pure has either of these. I have a Classic, but I have added a PID to it, and some other things to make it easier to pull a good shot. I bought my Classic from ebay, but it did need some work when I got it, it was pretty old, and full of scale. If you handy, they are fairly easy to work on, and take apart.

Like others said, I would worry about the grinder first, you can't make good espresso without a good grinder, and then fresh beans.

I think the grinder class considered the bare minimum includes the Nemox Lux, and some of the Ascaso, the Vaneli mini pro II and II and a couple Lelit grinders. They all use the same burr set. The difference is the lower priced ones are stepped, the better ones are stepless. Stepless will do a better job for espresso, but don't expect to use it for anything else, they are supposed to be a pain to change the settings back and forth, so people use them as dedicated espresso grinders.

Another option for the grinder is a hand one, but I found it gets old after a while, to have to hand crank the grinder, but it may work for you.

Randy

Hello,

I am in the same situation as gnostic19 - looking to purchase our first espesso machine, in the same <$500 price range for maker and grinder, and mainly making lattes, possibly 2-4 each morning.

I have been reading many of the forums here, and have learned a lot, but I have also been made aware of issues I didn't even realize might exist.

So far, these are the (main) things I'm unsure about:

1. Most of our drinks will be milk based drinks; is the lack of a heat exchanger or double boiler (whatever those are) going to make back-to-back drink making difficult? (Sounds like I know what I'm talking about.)

2. (This question shows my last of experience.) It seems that you have to start and stop the the process of making shots on most models. This means standing over the machine for appox 30 seconds while the espresso is made? On the machines with programmable buttons (like the Gaggia Dose), what is lost to gain that capability?

3. Is there a huge difference, and what are the general differences, on say the $100 machines vs the $350 machines?

Any advice/suggestions welcome. Basically, we would just like to make lattes at home; we aren't experts and probably never will be. If we can spend $200 on a espresso machine and the same on a grinder, and come out with a few decent lattes a morning, we'd be thrilled.

Thanks,
Lauren

Welcome from a fellow Houstonian.

I'm NW (near 290 & 6) if you'd like to chat and get the scoop on a bunch of stuff all at once, just shoot me an email or PM. In the meantime there is a resources page with TONS of info:
http://www.home-barista.com/resources.html


Perhaps start with the machine types:
Espresso Machines 101


Making Latte requires some steampower, so HX or DB are advatanageous. Unfortunately, HX machines start at more than double your budget just for the machine and DB's start at around $2k. Starter setups can be managed under $500 but making milk drinks like cappuccino or latte will take at least 5 minutes for each one (and probably longer).

For a small stretch (50%?) over your budget you might be able to get a used HX machine and a decent grinder but it'll take some searching and effort. An HX machine would allow you to make milk drinks in a minute or two each, which is a huge difference if you want to sit and enjoy the coffee together

Ln and i are in the same boat. Me and my gfriend hit Sbucks every night after dinner for out flavored lattes. We spend 8 freaking bucks a day. I was just about set on the Pure/MDF/Rocky combo. Now i am thinking what's an extra $150 for a Classic, right?

Seriously, though, i can't spend more that $600 on this thing. Some places give a break on price if you buy a combo set, so that's what i'm looking for. Five minutes a drink is ok...it takes 15 to drive up to SBucks every night. I just want something that will last for years and not force me to go fork over $500 in a year or two for another machine cause i'm not getting what i want with my current set up. I don't want to make crappy drinks just cuase i can say i'm saving money by not going to SBucks.

Also, i'd rather not go used, cause with my luck the thing craps out in a month and i don't want to be messing with any problems.

Thanks again for any help.

randytsuch wrote:The Classic has a 3 way valve, and a OPV. I don't think the Pure has either of these. I have a Classic, but I have added a PID to it, and some other things to make it easier to pull a good shot. I bought my Classic from ebay, but it did need some work when I got it, it was pretty old, and full of scale. If you handy, they are fairly easy to work on, and take apart.

The Coffee and Espresso lack the 3-way, but have the same boiler, group, and pump, so are also worth considering; the coffee they produce is indistinguishable from the Baby and Classic. However, the Baby is usually available somewhere refurbed (not used!) for under $300, and the 3-way helps keep the machine clean, so it is the machine I'd recommend.

I think the grinder class considered the bare minimum includes the Nemox Lux, and some of the Ascaso, the Vaneli mini pro II and II and a couple Lelit grinders.

The Gaggia MDF is also a fine starter grinder, I think better than the small conicals, thought the steps are large.

Most of our drinks will be milk based drinks; is the lack of a heat exchanger or double boiler (whatever those are) going to make back-to-back drink making difficult?

For multiple simultaneous drinks in a single-boiler machine (ie, two or three lattes at once) you will need to brew all the shots first, then steam all the milk. For back-to-back drinks, you just have to wait until the boiler cools back down to espresso temp. This is a matter of minutes on the Gaggias, is the one big advantage of the relatively small Gaggia boilers.