jerbear00 wrote:I love my setup (no bias j/k):

Izzo Duetto + Compak k10 pro-barista + filters plumbed in

As others have said you can turn the steam off and run her round the clock plumbed in for low cost.

I am absolutely in love! The chrome looks great and both machines are so reliable and consistent!

I love the sound of your setup.

I had an Isomac Amica, which is equivalent to a Zaffiro. It was very nice, but a slow turnaround for steaming. I had a PID added before I learned how to do that myself. It was well worth it as I could really dial in a coffee. E61 groups will give you rich mouthfeel and blended flavors. Levers with their declining pressure profile will give you more layered flavors. The Strega's at a lower price point than the Londinium, giving you more grinder budget.

I personally wouldn't buy a machine that doesn't allow altering the pressure during the shot. The Strega is the only machine that fits this. The other machines require modification which is poorly documented on these forums. If you have already encountered pressure profiling in your research and it's something that interests you, getting a machine NOW that caters to that is a good idea.

I have used a non-commercial spring lever, and I was left wondering how much better a commercial lever would be like. I wouldn't want you in that same boat.

I will say what you will read time and again and that is DO NOT compromise on a grinder. You have plenty of money for a truly great grinder. If you do not mind hand grinding a Voodoo'd Pharos cannot be beat. . .and it grinds an 18g shot in not so many cranks. . .it's actually pretty quick. Then get a Londinium. That would be a great setup if you don't mind cranking. It would be perfect for being on all day etc. . .

I must admit complete ignorance on the Doge, but if I were going to go electric I (personally) would do no less than a K10, K30 Vario, or Mazzer Major class grinder. I also wont even consider having a doser. I hate them with a deep, abiding, passion. . .but that is me. The point is , if going electric, spend all your money on a killer grinder. . . not just good, you have the money for great. I've never seen anyone complain about having too good of a grinder.

Having owned an HX machine for years I can say the adjustability part is exchanged for consistency. I don't long for a dual boiler or anything, just sometimes I'd like more consistency than I can get out of an (instrumented) HX Vetrano. That said I would consider a K30 Vario with an Anita. . .or maybe even a Robur and a Gaggia something-or-other. I would spend no less than 1600USD on the grinder. You can pull a very good shot with a Robur and a Krups thermoblock. . .a bit of hyperbole, but go heavy on the grinder or get a Pharos is my point.

therabidweasel wrote:I must admit complete ignorance on the Doge, but if I were going to go electric I (personally) would do no less than a K10, K30 Vario, or Mazzer Major class grinder.

The Doge is large conical, grind comparable to a Robur.

Same burr size and burr geometry, but otherwise maybe not so comparable. The Fiorenzato Doge Conico has serious retention and inconvenience issues. The same is true of the Quamar T48, the Doge's 83mm diameter flat burr sister (Quamar is Fiorenzato)

BDL

Are you saying that a robur, with its retention problems, is not inconvenient? Commercial conicals are designed for high volume, and have problems translating to home use.

jerbear00 wrote: Also, I don't understand this doser hatred? My routine is grind, sweep, 3-4 thwacks.... That takes like 10s with me half asleep... Plus the k10 pro barista has negligible retention when used this way. I too was adversive but listened to others on how easy she was to use. Glad I listened!

I was a doser hater (without actually trying one) which is why I went with a Robur E. Aside from the grind retention it is also crazy messy. You can single-dose with it, but the chute is angled in a way that seems to make it appropriate for a left handed person.
After trying out a doser-ed K10 Pro, I'm a total convert. If nothing else, the doser keeps the grounds from getting all over your counter. It is a little extra hassle to single-dose, but the great espresso and clean counter is more than a great trade-off for me.

pacificmanitou wrote:Are you saying that a robur, with its retention problems, is not inconvenient?

No. I'm saying that a Doge Conico's retention problems are even greater than the Robur's and not as easily solved by merely pushing more coffee through it.

Commercial conicals are designed for high volume, and have problems translating to home use.

Depends on the specific "commercial conical." Some are more home friendly than others. Similarly, some walk-up doserless grinders have less grind retention than others; while some dosered grinders have serious retention issues. Plus, there's more to convenience/inconvenience than retention or messiness.

As a class, other than size, I don't find "commercial" grinders, whether conical or flat, better or worse in the home than the class of smaller home grinders. On the other hand, the smaller grinders don't do nearly as good a job at grinding.

If I'd thought the Robur or Robur E was a paragon of grinding AND operator-friendliness, I would have bought one or the other instead of the "commercial conical" I just bought. The most important factor in my choice was the anticipated gestalt[x] of use.

BDL